Discussions about Hiring and Hiring Practices

[silvia8917]

I don't mind the practice of giving hiring tests, but ElkRiverRancher's questions are just too difficult to me... LOL As a Chinese who's born and grows up in Hong Kong, it's just not really possible for me to know so much about American literature... Just like I'm not going to ask "Which Emperor ordered the unification of writing characters in China?", even though it's pretty common knowledge in the place where I live. (The answer is Qin Shi Huang, by the way.) Even if I did ask, I doubt I was ever going to receive an answer. I'm not really motivated to google something like that just for a job in a game, either, especially when somebody else is probably hired already during the time when I do my research...

As a matter of fact I used to hand out hiring tests too, but it was usually a mathematics question, so basically no information research is required. (And it's not stuff like "what is the square root of 45905 times the sum of 1298 and 4333 minus sin80", just simple stuff like "1+5*9") BUT then one day...

I gave out a math question, say, 1+5*9, by saying "I'll hire the first person who answers 1+5*9=? correctly".
I got a couple of answers saying 54.
I thought, well that's incorrect, but since nobody did get it correctly, so I hired the first person who answered anyway.
We went to my farm, and I started a chat by saying "the correct answer is 46 because in mathematics you should do multiplication and division before addition and subtraction".
And the person I hired replied, "Oh I never knew that. Never taught this at school."
CULTURAL SHOCK!!! In Hong Kong, "multiplication and division first, addition and subtraction later" is something that's taught in primary schools...

After this incident, I realize that handing out hiring test doesn't really work.
FarmTown is an international game. If even mathematics is not universal, I don't know what's a fair hiring test. LOL

By the way, once I also got someone who replied "I played this game for fun, not for doing mathematics". Well, to each their own, but to me, being challenged by single-digit multiplication is pretty lame, unless you are born or hit with some special conditions. And that's actually quite a rude response, too.


After I gave up handing out tests, each time I need to hire someone from the marketplace I simply ask, "Who wants to harvest?" "Who wants to plow?" "I need a person to FIRST harvest my trees and THEN plow. Anyone?" Then I hire the first 1-2 person who responds, depending on the size of the job.

Sometimes it still amazes me that I can get NO response even with such direct questions/offers, though. I'd think, are they not interested in the work I have to offer? (But that not even ONE person shows up is still quite unbelievable) Even if your usual strategy is waiting quietly, it's still pretty clear that under THIS circumstance you have to actually respond to get a job.

If I get no response, I just hit "go home" and go to another marketplace. I don't hire people who are mute because I'm afraid they may not actually be playing at that moment.

The people I hire with this strategy are all satisfactory workers so far, so I'm sticking to it.

[ElkRiverRancher]

Originally Posted by silvia8917

it's just not really possible for me to know so much about American literature... Just like I'm not going to ask "Which Emperor ordered the unification of writing characters in China?", even though it's pretty common knowledge in the place where I live. (The answer is Qin Shi Huang, by the way.)

Well, I agree, some questions might not be easily answered by those who are unfamiliar with American or English literature. But the questions I choose always relate to the crop I have. I would not ask, for example, 'How many Colonies were there, when what became the United States fought for independence from Great Britain?', because I cannot correlate the answer with any possible Farmtown crop. I would not ask, 'Who is the author of 'The Shining'', although many know it is Stephen King. I would ask 'Who wrote 'The Grapes of Wrath', if my current crop is grapes. (It was Steinbeck).

Originally Posted by silvia8917

As a matter of fact I used to hand out hiring tests too, but it was usually a mathematics question, so basically no information research is required. (And it's not stuff like "what is the square root of 45905 times the sum of 1298 and 4333 minus sin80", just simple stuff like "1+5*9") BUT then one day...

I gave out a math question, say, 1+5*9, by saying "I'll hire the first person who answers 1+5*9=? correctly".
I got a couple of answers saying 54.
I thought, well that's incorrect, but since nobody did get it correctly, so I hired the first person who answered anyway.
We went to my farm, and I started a chat by saying "the correct answer is 46 because in mathematics you should do multiplication and division before addition and subtraction".
And the person I hired replied, "Oh I never knew that. Never taught this at school."
CULTURAL SHOCK!!! In Hong Kong, "multiplication and division first, addition and subtraction later" is something that's taught in primary schools...

Here in the States, the arithmetic question would have been written:
1 + (5x9) = ? The brackets are used to indicate the separation of the figures. Without the brackets, the arithmetic would be done 'in order' of appearance, which is why you got answers of 54. Also, in the States, the symbol for multiplication is 'x', not '*'.

Originally Posted by silvia8917

By the way, once I also got someone who replied "I played this game for fun, not for doing mathematics". Well, to each their own, but to me, being challenged by single-digit multiplication is pretty lame, unless you are born or hit with some special conditions. And that's actually quite a rude response, too.

Well, I certainly have gotten similar replies, Silvia - from players who resent having to think for a moment, instead of beg. I just gently remind them that they have at their disposal an excellent tool, called the 'ignore' button, and encourage them to employ it!

Originally Posted by silvia8917

The people I hire with this strategy are all satisfactory workers so far, so I'm sticking to it.

I find all my employees wind up wanting to be buddies, so I imagine the reality is, those who enjoy a bit more of a challenge than, 'Who wants to harvest grapes', try to answer the employment quiz. Those who consider asking for a correct response to a quiz as a hiring tool being expected to 'jump through hoops' ignore my employment quiz. I'm pretty sure, with the tremendous number of folks playing this game, there is room at the marketplace for all.

[silvia8917]

Originally Posted by ElkRiverRancher

Here in the States, the arithmetic question would have been written:
1 + (5x9) = ? The brackets are used to indicate the separation of the figures. Without the brackets, the arithmetic would be done 'in order' of appearance, which is why you got answers of 54. Also, in the States, the symbol for multiplication is 'x', not '*'.

In Hong Kong, the brackets are used to indicate when the "multiplication and division first" rule does not apply. 9*6+1=55, when 9*(6+1)=63. It can also be used to indicate multiplication when no other mathematical sign is found between the numbers, e.g. (9)(6+1)=63.

We actually use "x" here, too. Just that I'm used to type * on the keyboard. I am just bugged by the fact that the "x" on keyboard is intended as an alphabet instead of the multiplication sign. LOL Also you type * to do multiplication in the Windows software e.g. Calculator, MS Excel etc..

I find all my employees wind up wanting to be buddies, so I imagine the reality is, those who enjoy a bit more of a challenge than, 'Who wants to harvest grapes', try to answer the employment quiz. Those who consider asking for a correct response to a quiz as a hiring tool being expected to 'jump through hoops' ignore my employment quiz. I'm pretty sure, with the tremendous number of folks playing this game, there is room at the marketplace for all.

Yep I got more buddying requests when I handed out hiring tests too. Now I've changed my practice they've become so rare that I get more buddying requests just standing in the market waiting to be hired. LOL But I guess that's more reason for me to ask direct questions, because I never check my buddy list when I have to hire, even though I accept every buddying request . I seldom hire neighbours too, but I don't see them online often anyway.

[BirdSalad]

Originally Posted by ElkRiverRancher

Here in the States, the arithmetic question would have been written:
1 + (5x9) = ? The brackets are used to indicate the separation of the figures. Without the brackets, the arithmetic would be done 'in order' of appearance, which is why you got answers of 54. Also, in the States, the symbol for multiplication is 'x', not '*'.

LOL - well, not really. I am a public school teacher in the US, and rules of operation always state multiply/divide before add/subtract. Actually, it's this order:
brackets
exponents
multiply/divide
add/subtract

and always from left to right inside each order.

Using the symbol "x" is most common when hand printing, but on calculators or computers, you would use "*" to indicate multiplication, since it is a mathematical symbol. A computer wouldn't know what to do with an "x" in the middle of an equation!

And now you have your mini math lesson for the day, just in case you ever get called to play "Are you smarter than a fifth grader"!

[ElkRiverRancher]

Originally Posted by BirdSalad

LOL - well, not really. I am a public school teacher in the US, and rules of operation always state multiply/divide before add/subtract. Actually, it's this order:
brackets
exponents
multiply/divide
add/subtract

and always from left to right inside each order.

Okay .... 8 ÷ 2 x 2 ÷ 2 = what, exactly? Are you going to do the multiplication, first, or the division, first?
Multiplication, first (2 x 2 = 4), then do the division (8 ÷ 4 (= 2) ÷ 2 = 1)

Division, first (8 ÷ 2 = 4) x ( 2 ÷ 2 = 1) = 4

Or, are you going to do the equation in order 'left to right'

8 ÷ 2 (= 4) x 2 (= 8) ÷ 2 (= 4)

Seems to me that if you 'speak' this equation in a sentence stream

"Eight divided by two times two divided by two" the only way the human mind is going to keep up is by doing the equation in the order in which the numbers are received. You're going to calculate as you receive the information, so you're going to 'see' 8 , divide it by 2 and 'register' 4, then multiply 4 by the next number your brain receives (2), register "8", then divide 8 by "2", and get a result of 4, at the end of the stream of numbers.

My first Texas Instruments hand held calculator (and several I still have) use the obelus as the division symbol, and the lower case 'x' as the multiplication symbol.


BTW, my 'simply' arithmetic 'employment test' is a 'word problem':

"My vineyards yield 525 quarts of grapes. There are 105 quarts of grapes in every dry barrel of grapes. Each dry barrel of grapes yields 2 gallons of wine. How many gallons of wine will my vineyards yield?"

So, teach, what would be your answer?

[JAS0643]

Originally Posted by ElkRiverRancher

Okay .... 8 ÷ 2 x 2 ÷ 2 = what, exactly? Are you going to do the multiplication, first, or the division, first?
Multiplication, first (2 x 2 = 4), then do the division (8 ÷ 4 (= 2) ÷ 2 = 1)

Division, first (8 ÷ 2 = 4) x ( 2 ÷ 2 = 1) = 4

Or, are you going to do the equation in order 'left to right'

8 ÷ 2 (= 4) x 2 (= 8) ÷ 2 (= 4)

Seems to me that if you 'speak' this equation in a sentence stream

Unless there are () around number it is division first then multiplication. So it would be 8/2 x 2/2 so you have 4x1, the answering being 4.

[silvia8917]

Originally Posted by ElkRiverRancher

Okay .... 8 ÷ 2 x 2 ÷ 2 = what, exactly? Are you going to do the multiplication, first, or the division, first?
Multiplication, first (2 x 2 = 4), then do the division (8 ÷ 4 (= 2) ÷ 2 = 1)

Division, first (8 ÷ 2 = 4) x ( 2 ÷ 2 = 1) = 4

Or, are you going to do the equation in order 'left to right'

8 ÷ 2 (= 4) x 2 (= 8) ÷ 2 (= 4)

Seems to me that if you 'speak' this equation in a sentence stream

"Eight divided by two times two divided by two" the only way the human mind is going to keep up is by doing the equation in the order in which the numbers are received. You're going to calculate as you receive the information, so you're going to 'see' 8 , divide it by 2 and 'register' 4, then multiply 4 by the next number your brain receives (2), register "8", then divide 8 by "2", and get a result of 4, at the end of the stream of numbers.

My first Texas Instruments hand held calculator (and several I still have) use the obelus as the division symbol, and the lower case 'x' as the multiplication symbol.


BTW, my 'simply' arithmetic 'employment test' is a 'word problem':

"My vineyards yield 525 quarts of grapes. There are 105 quarts of grapes in every dry barrel of grapes. Each dry barrel of grapes yields 2 gallons of wine. How many gallons of wine will my vineyards yield?"

So, teach, what would be your answer?

As multiplication and division belong to the same class, just see if there're brackets. If yes, follow the brackets; if no, do it from left to right.

Actually "eight divided by two times two divided by two" is ambiguous? As it is possible that the second "divided" is applied to "eight divided by two times two", or to only the "two" before it. It can be read as: eightdividedbytwo - times - twodividedbytwo. Just a thought.

As for your word problem, 525/125 * 2 = 5*2 = 10. Right? In writing it'd be 525 ÷ 125 x 2 = 5 x 2 = 10

(Why are we discussing math in this thread anyway. LOL Though math is undoubtedly useful in calculating which crops is the most ludicrous in Farm Town. )

[santorm]

Originally Posted by ElkRiverRancher

"My vineyards yield 525 quarts of grapes. There are 105 quarts of grapes in every dry barrel of grapes. Each dry barrel of grapes yields 2 gallons of wine. How many gallons of wine will my vineyards yield?"

Did you know that there are two different types of gallons? And did you know that gallons and quarts may be totally unintelligible to players who are not from ex British colonies? And I am glad that someone else is helping with the maths rules, which I think are the same worldwide.......

[Hessel]

I have completely given up on hiring for work on my farms. Between the ones that leave 20+ squares unpicked and then want to plow, and the ones who leave just after starting the job, it has proven to be futile. I just pick my own crops 5x5 and auto plow, and also work at the market. Given the lack of jobs at the market place most nights, I suspect that this is a fairly widespread thing. I do hire neighbors, but thats it. If people complain about not getting work, there are reasons. It has just become faster to avoid the hassle of trying to hire good help. It's too bad the good newbies have to pay the price for all the poor players who try to cherry pick their jobs. Too bad FT can't track the ones who quit and leave a job undone. That said, I love the game and an as addicted as ever. Thanks guys for a great sim!

[auntyPix]

Originally Posted by Hessel

I have completely given up on hiring for work on my farms. Between the ones that leave 20+ squares unpicked and then want to plow, and the ones who leave just after starting the job, it has proven to be futile. I just pick my own crops 5x5 and auto plow, and also work at the market. Given the lack of jobs at the market place most nights, I suspect that this is a fairly widespread thing. I do hire neighbors, but thats it. If people complain about not getting work, there are reasons. It has just become faster to avoid the hassle of trying to hire good help. It's too bad the good newbies have to pay the price for all the poor players who try to cherry pick their jobs. Too bad FT can't track the ones who quit and leave a job undone. That said, I love the game and an as addicted as ever. Thanks guys for a great sim!

I don't like hiring from the market any more either. I find these days that people are being 'too nice' about being hired - won't do this, will only do that etc, and then having to chase around your farm after they have harvested, especially trees! and gather what they missed is really frustrating. This is always supposing you are successful in hiring anyone to begin with. they disappear as you click on them, they turn you down, they totally ignore your hire request. As for getting work from the market, well there are a lot of changes there too. what is the protocol, if i am hired, with another player, to harvest, & i use tools & the other player does not? Do i greedily rush around with my harvester because i have been hired to harvest or do i harvest only some & leave some - usually a lot! - for the other player? or should i put my harvester away & use the manual clicker?
I tell you, it is easier & quicker to do it myself & get the xp's from my neighbours facilities.